Locate object / Astral locator

[Jorquin]

I'm considering removing both of these entirely.

Locate object would just be removed entirely with no replacement.

As red robes generally fit into the niche of the "utility" mage, I'm wondering if Astral Locator should be replaced with the summon spell. There's a little bit of an overlap with tether here though.

Open to suggestions / thoughts on this one.

[eddiex]

Let's face it.  Most of the people opposed to the removal of locate object will come from the class of experienced and elite players.  It infringes on their ability to monopolize gear because of the necessity to actually play the game and run zones, rather than play the mini-game (hey mage go locate something useful and then we will start zoning).

We have all been in the position where we sit around waiting for magepro1 to ping us in skype (hey this item x is up).  While the zone is being run, said mage runs to next zone and locates item y and holds zone giving death threats on anyone who tries to run it.  I could see a scenario in which if (botting/multiing is allowed) some retard clan sits a multi at every zone they want to hold and act like complete shittards to anyone trying to play the game (potential con).

The combination of the changes to force load items, coupled with removing locate object will create a new dynamic within the game.  As a 15 year veteran, that is much more exciting than doing the same old shit and playing the same old game.  I think in terms of balancing game for the active player base (i.e. not catering to the elite/hardcore) this is an ideal change.

Removal of location spells
Disclaimer: Not trying to muddle the discussion with multiing/botting tangents, just presenting potential issues that would directly relate to removal of location spells

Pros:
-Makes people play the game, run the zone (rather than play a mage locating mini-game)
-Inhibits the ability to covertly cyber-stalk players who load someone's decay (a scenario which often leads to strong-arming and harassment)
-Removes the arbitrary most useful role of Mage (go locate something nice), some people want to role-play or love mages and should not be banished from grouping
-Creates potential for more gear to become available throughout the wipe to various groups of the player base (stands to reason that the more gear a clan has, the harder it would be to maintain without locate)
-Creates new dynamic in PvP (no more tracking player classes via locate object, establishing targets in large-scale pvp more challenging and may inadvertently change gear-based targeting.)

Cons:
-Removes ability to explore via locate (search for items, keys, objects within a zone)
-Removes exploit for cyberstalking player enemies (locating corpses, items worn to see if target is in area)
-May lead to excessive botsquad activity (i.e. 1 bot group for every zone)
-Will invariably lead to look bots in every inn

[Gramm]

It would certainly make exploring a lot harder, what if there was just a way to make locate work for a 5x5 room area or something instead of an entire city and surrounding area? That way one could still locate keys, or spellbooks and tomes and whatnot, but youd have to go further than the zone entrance in EVERY case.

I really liked Eddies idea to make  virtually ALL limited gear nolocate.  Honestly you would see gear spread out over a much larger amount of players id bet.  The people that have time to stack 3 chars with lim 1 items, would maybe only have 1 and a half stacked chars that way!
I mean its all really speculation I guess, but removing locate entirely or at least from limited items would be a pretty cool way to mix it up and force players to actually run the zones. 

Sometimes I like to just run  zone just to run the zone.. and do the fights, and laugh at some of the game content that was put there just to be funny. ie. whiff shit(armaboro area), or if you actually try to kneel before zod.. or when i jumped in a certain room full of fishhooks hanging off the ceiling. DTing CAN be fun yes, but i find quite often that I will get to a zone and rather than just running it for fun, it always has to be for something that is loading. That sucks. This game is brilliant and leaves so much to the imagination, every zone is worth running whether its loading something or not!

I vote mixer up !! but my vote might be a little biased coming from someone who spent a wipe trying to legend a bunch of clan mages, and successfully has a single nonrelocating legend blackrobe in the clan, legended via core donor books...

And think about the CHALLENGE it would add for all of us, people couldnt just be hyper efficient locate machines scoring loads 100% of the time and running out of things to spam after 2 days because they loaded it all first try!! A physix check wouldnt mean running to caergoth and typing locate book, it would mean KILLING PHYSIX, or at least running a thief in to look at him or something. No more locating on bmobs, only SLAYING bmobs. irda would be a fun facecheck too!

In a sense removing locate will make the game a lot more time consuming to get to that TOP TIER eliteness for top tier plays effectively fulfulling their need to have a more challenging game, and it will also give the non top tier players a chance to load some random shinies too, and maybe even keep them because someone wont astral locate their decay and demand it back.

[Patpat]

I say give it a try. Gramm is right that it is important as a tool in zone exploration, but there's 100s of items ive located and never found. so meh. With all major changes though don't be afraid to revert if it doesn't seem to be working. I like the idea of trying it without locate though.

[Hoodoo]

Fix a certain green dragonhide book, please.  :)  I have no issue seeing locate go away:  I would rather mages be played primarily by people who actually want to mage, instead of everyone using them for one low spell and logging their melee. 

Astral locator should die in a fire, yes.  And about 4 red robe spells need fixing.

[reed23]

The only problem I have with removing locate is it will make the game more "grindy" if you are trying to retain a set.  For example, if you are trying to keep old tarnished lance from Storms, without locate, you are going to probably have to run the zone 3-4 times.  We had to do a similar type thing with HCT for multiple reasons, and we ended up doing full HCT 10-20 times in a row.  That was a nightmare.
I'm not sure if removing locate would make gear more available in zones like storms, sanction, Irda, etc. etc.  If the hard-core addicts want to retain their items, they will figure out a way to spam those zones to keep their gear.
I'm all for astral locate dying.  The spell is too powerful.
If the goal is for the mid-tier zones to produce gear more often to reward the zoners, I think playing with load % rates and maxes may be more effective.  However, it has already been explicitly stated by the staff that there is plenty of gear in the game.

[breiner]

What is the reasoning behind removing locate object entirely? The spell has always been a benefit to players. One could scale it down a bit or rather put a cap on the power on the spell so you cannot locate from one end of Krynn to the other (which is a bit silly) that way you still have to run around with your mage to get closer to your desired locate target.

[Jorquin]

The idea is to make people actually run zones rather than run between them with swarms of mages looking for shinies.

If removing it is unpopular I'll leave it in - I just think removing it would do more good than harm. I toyed with the idea of removing astral locator and putting locate object as the 8th level spell for red robes, however this would just tip the scales further towards power players which is the exact opposite of what I'm going for.

[Jorake]

What summoning spell? Would you still leave locate scrolls in? Maybe make a level 30 locate scroll and have it cost 1k

[Willoe]

Green isn't broken and nothing to fix...Just because it's not loading where you want it to does not mean it's broken.

[Pyder]

The idea is to make people actually run zones rather than run between them with swarms of mages looking for shinies.

Best idea i've heard all day :)

[Gramm]

The reason it IS a good idea, is because you will HAVE to smash storms 4 times to get that lance exactly! maybe someone else wanted that lance and theyll have that chance to slip in and load it maybe, then you will have a legit reason to pk them for it, and the beautiful world of arctic greedmongering, shady item stealing between crews, and pk will commence!
excitement it would bring to the force yes.

theres for sure going to be pros and cons to it, but cant hurt to test it out for a bit and know for sure! (unless we are thinking about weakening every single spell to a 2d5 1 1 status in a really poorly tiered system)

[Loretta]

The idea is to make people actually run zones rather than run between them with swarms of mages looking for shinies.

Add more death load stuff. Locate is also perfect pk feature that allow you to keep an eye where enemy are and what mobs are they killing. You just want to move game into grind sandbox or what? We have plenty graphix MMORPG for it, dont need txt one. Removing key and quest item locate will made zones explore a nightmare for ppl who havnt access to immortal friends.

[corey]

Remove locate, add another spell to replace it to keep tabs on players.

Remove deathloads entirely unless it doesn't make sense not to (dragons wearing a shield). If you can't locate you should be able to see what's loading for sure if you look at the mob.

[Super Tacoman]

i have never liked locate.  i would rather do zones based on what sounds like fun instead of being forced to do zones because something is loading.