Author Topic: Multi-ing / Botting  (Read 42366 times)

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newbie123321

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2016, 06:49:14 AM »
Hoss even said that you are allowed to have scripts that do certain actions just as long as it doesn't do everything for you i.e. just assist/type group ect. but not all other actions ofc, because you know now a days people play 2 games at once especially with game where literally all your doing is following one leader so all you're forced to do is be there for kw's and do some skills but to get thru a zone yes people who are not the leader get bapting bored and want it to auto assist this is not a bot it's just a person who has cruise control, you will still crash if you're not actually there you just don't have to keep pressing the gas especially when you're in a zone that is long.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 07:37:22 AM by newbie123321 »

newbie123321

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2016, 07:34:23 AM »
In the event we are allowed to tag and register 1 bot, it will still be easy to detect if your using more than the normal amount and The Mighty Jorquin knows how that looks like, plus in the event some bullshit went down like 200 people or more than 10 people/whatever the group size limit attacks/pks another clan/group they will more than likely get abyssed or deleted and if you're in a competitive clan I am very sure you will get reported and accused of cheating and will get snooped/watched to see if you are in fact being a bapting jerk! and exceeding the limit and abusing the privileges our New Overlord has so humbly granted us! ALL HAIL THE NEW OVERLORD!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 07:39:22 AM by newbie123321 »

Oligo

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2016, 03:29:50 PM »
Im not thrilled at the idea of NEEDING an autobot to defend me from other autobots... but I would do it if we had to, is every player going to be capable of running them though? is that really going to benefit newer players at all having some pk obsessed botmasters running around without control or some semblance of authority to keep them in line?
This is just more bot fear mongering.
Firstly, news flash, I'm pretty sure there have been 8 to 10 man bot crews which have been running since 2012. Secondly, if you look at the pklog, without naming names I only see bots as victims in the past 1/2 yr, no pk'ers.

2016-03-25 18:31:45 Turok killed Paprika.
2016-03-29 11:05:06 Scrat killed Suri.
2016-03-31 19:59:06 Turok killed Turrible.
2016-04-03 03:24:05 Turok killed Turrible.
2016-04-07 02:15:23 Aarcticmud killed Hossandaristoxx.
2016-04-07 02:58:22 Marius killed Bryton.
2016-04-07 23:10:35 Arden killed Irons.
2016-04-08 10:06:16 Hoss killed BrytonsHopesandDreams.
2016-04-22 23:06:55 Zat killed Bloat.
2016-04-22 23:07:11 Arden killed Fraker.
2016-04-22 23:07:19 Zat killed Jaune.
2016-04-22 23:07:21 Vez killed Dracula.
2016-05-04 17:34:47 Loki killed Skye.
2016-05-07 13:14:23 Nora killed Redrum.
2016-05-09 23:36:02 Scurry killed Florer.
2016-05-19 17:14:22 Jaune killed Corwin.
2016-05-24 23:49:38 Scurry killed Paso.
2016-05-26 16:14:14 Takyr killed Takyr.
2016-05-30 13:33:41 Blake killed Bloat.
2016-05-30 20:23:01 Turrible killed Turrible.
2016-06-03 12:32:41 Kanga killed Ware.
2016-06-15 19:48:13 Kleen killed Kleen.
2016-06-30 22:53:39 Scurry killed Didchoo.
2016-07-12 08:45:17 Hawt killed Hawt.
2016-07-14 18:10:25 Reddy killed Pharoh.
2016-07-17 18:26:52 Jaune killed Blake.
2016-07-18 22:48:12 Scurry killed Vez.
2016-07-18 23:23:15 Kalerin killed Cephelo.
2016-07-19 22:57:47 Jaune killed Bloat.
2016-07-19 23:15:34 Scurry killed Fraker.
2016-07-19 23:15:54 Scurry killed Aymahn.
2016-07-19 23:16:14 Scurry killed Hao.
2016-07-20 14:43:45 Jaqueline killed Reddy.
2016-07-20 14:51:48 Valeera killed Jaqueline.
2016-07-20 22:48:15 Scurry killed Paprika.
2016-07-20 22:55:23 Scurry killed Starkor.
2016-07-21 14:44:34 Chiz killed Rashan.
2016-07-29 15:13:57 Vraxim killed Nievel.
2016-07-30 16:16:17 Phife killed Siulents.
2016-08-04 22:49:37 Kalerin killed Paprika.


Terk

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2016, 01:07:14 AM »
This does not reflect the opinion of the staff.

I'm just an old retired jerk. I also think a lot of people who think like me are the sorts of people who are quiet on forums. Forums are obviously dominated by a few strong personalities.

I think there is very little upside to allowing botting and a lot of downside. At its core Arctic is a role playing game, which by definition implies a single player. Its long term success, while built on a few important things, ultimately comes down to personal relationships.

I've definitely been in a few bot groups in the past few years and the experience is lackluster. There's almost no conversation. Playing begins to feel like a job. It's painful. If the game was anything like that when I first started playing, I'd never have stuck around.

Throw in the additional downside of what Norm is calling the Doom's Day scenario--which I don't think is nearly as unlikely as is being touted (Yes maybe 1 player controlling 30 effectively is a challenge, but for 6 it would be trivial. 1 round from 30 bashers/punchers/kickers is going to kill any one player before they can say "I got oligooed"). Legal multiplaying has way more potential to drive players away than the status quo.

All that said I think we do need an in game solution for the most reasonable reason that multibots come to exist anyway--it is at times hard to find companions to do basic stuff that you need to do to advance your character effectively. A lot of people have talked about having a "single" multi, but I think this is complicated and not ideal for a variety of reasons that I don't like--primarily limited gear and limited group slots.

I'd propose a mercenary system that is entirely creation based so it doesn't require coding.

We'd open a store that sells a device made by a devious renegade mage, Morathian. This device will allow players to summon one of three different golems, each in 5 different colors. A warrior golem (red, green, blue, indigo, orange), A healing golem (red, green, blue, indigo, orange), A sneaking golem (w/pick) (red, green, blue, indigo, orange). You could summon the golem, and change it out every 1-5 ticks.

The reason for all the colors is that you could conveniently have them in a group and target the right one with your orders with some strategy.
I envision three tiers of devices. At costs of 20k (level 20), 100k (level 25), and 300k (level 30). Ultimately though, the highest tier would be like adding a level 30 charmy to your group. I'd even be fine with them being able to wear gear, if you wanted them to wear good stuff though you'd probably end up having it unworn in rent.

We'd have to make the device not work in one man's. Be no-steal. etc. But I think this would make it a lot easier to do high level zones with mid tier gear on a few friends and it'd make death traps diabolical (which I love). Also, Morathian would get rich.

-Jerk

Oligo

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2016, 01:48:59 AM »
Throw in the additional downside of what Norm is calling the Doom's Day scenario--which I don't think is nearly as unlikely as is being touted (Yes maybe 1 player controlling 30 effectively is a challenge, but for 6 it would be trivial. 1 round from 30 bashers/punchers/kickers is going to kill any one player before they can say "I got oligooed"). Legal multiplaying has way more potential to drive players away than the status quo.

Terk, I know for a fact you have single-handidly mass ripped an entire bot group in Irda in the Raylax tracker main room. You were like healing for some bot squad from a terminal at your hospital. So if you say playing 6 is trivial, that's definitely false. And I heard the reason they let you into the group, wasn't because of your healing abilities, but because they generously decided to boot a healbot for human company which turned out to be their fatal mistake.


« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 01:52:53 AM by Oligo »

reed23

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2016, 03:35:28 AM »
Terk - What is the difference between playing 2 characters from 1 IP vs. having a mercenary that heals, bashes, picks, etc.?

avucu

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2016, 05:06:52 AM »
I like the dual server idea.

1) Standard Arctic rules - no multis/bots, PK, limited items, pwipes, etc.
2) Baldur's Gate/RPG style server - multis/bots allowed, no PK, no limited items, no wipes, etc.

Malaki

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2016, 05:16:02 AM »
Not a representation of the Staffs Opinion.

So seems like most are mixing these two together.
But the majority of the complaints i see are from Multi-ing, or Multi-ing + Botting, but not Botting itself.

1. Botting - Scripts / Triggers / Aliases / Paths / Actions, to the point your character is on autopilot grinding something out or routinely checking something, coin running, mapping the entire mud, etc.
2. Multi-ing - type fast, use zmud/cmud or other interfaces that make it easy to manually control multiple prompts, and have nice window layouts to easily and manually do this well.
3. Multi-ing + Botting - Thing the end of the world is coming, horrible, etc.

Personally i would like to tinker with my triggers, scripts, actions, aliases, paths, and more to go to full automation.  Even though im pretty close to that as it is, i am always actively watching the screen just don't like hammering 130 wpm on my mechanical keyboard at home, let alone type that fast and loud at work or elsewhere.

I dont see an issue with scenario 1 or 2, but have a little apprehension about scenario 3.  But honestly some of scenario 3 will just be people that like learning and exploring on their own, with their own characters, or dabbling in a new lua or python scripting code to fully do with a game they love and have played over the years.  And alot of scenario 3 has existed for years to this day, and dont see them causing much of a fuss other than accusations of x y or z doing it.

The main fear and complaint i see is when this is somewhat abused or just used for negativity, which is a portion or potential of scenario 3 but by no means anywhere the norm.  And people could do that anyway without botting or multing when motivated enough.


Oligo

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2016, 06:31:50 AM »
I like the dual server idea.
It's a horrible idea, it fragments an already thin playerbase. What will happen is the botter will be playing on both ports simultaneously. On the single char port, he will just have a completely afk bot in a group being dragged along by the leader. The botter will be focused on playing the bot port and use the knowledge acquired on the bot port to beef up his single player char that is 100% afk. People on the single char port will complain about the botter having an unfair advantage on the bot port and they will whine at a greater level than they do in this thread.

But honestly some of scenario 3 will just be people that like learning and exploring on their own, with their own characters, or dabbling in a new lua or python scripting code to fully do with a game they love and have played over the years.  And alot of scenario 3 has existed for years to this day, and dont see them causing much of a fuss other than accusations of x y or z doing it.
Malaki, this is true.

Look people, maybe yall are naive, blind, or both. But botting has been amongst yall for the better part of a decade. If anything they have contributed to the playerbase, not detracted from it.

Let me give a concrete YouTube example because everyone is speaking in doomsday hypotheticals with zero basis in fact, experience, or reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOZhXip3y00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i35e3W3pDDk

In the two YouTube examples above, 8 bots are being controlled by 1 player from 1 screen.
You can clearly see the bot control from the command line inputs.
Aemon, Royderage, Moinier, Rhonda, Hendo, Alanis, Yhonk, Kog are all bots.
With the exception of Hendo (paladin), they were all legend rank 29+. Note these logs and videos are dated 2012~2013.
So at least 4 yrs ago bots en masse have existed in the Arctic population.
I would imagine bots today are more sophisticated than bots 4 yrs ago, yet I still haven't seen mass pk by botters.
Finns have had bots for over two decades. Bots are literally walking free gear.
If anything people should be clamoring for bots because you can pk one and get all shinies in one fell swoop without wasting hours running zones.

Easy Finnish healbot summon kill.
http://normstorm.com/logs/april13_2012.txt

The only innocent person I know of dying to bots was due to a random (Agravaine) who got caught by druidbot and skybot area.
http://normstorm.com/logs/june12_2013.txt

Unless you go full retard like this Wild mage bomb squad jumping into 9 bots played by 1 person, you won't lose to bots.
http://normstorm.com/logs/june16_2012.txt

And in the last major pk, bots lost due to human ingenuity (roar).
http://normstorm.com/logs/june16_2013.txt

Without exposing identities, I can tell you bots this wipe have been crushed by a major clan in any large semi-organized pk.

Unless folks can back up ideas with concrete data such as logs or YouTube videos, then everything else is baseless and not grounded in reality.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 07:40:55 AM by Oligo »

newbie123321

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2016, 07:32:49 AM »
All the competitive clans! Wilds/CORE (eric fodder)/RISE are the only clans getting any eq beginning of wipe and are the only ones pking normally and have always used bots, so wtf cares about myth being scared of dennis crew you guys have way to much people anyways so dennis needs those bots to get you gramm and level the playing field ffs!

gulca

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2016, 08:16:51 AM »
All the competitive clans! Wilds/CORE (eric fodder)/RISE are the only clans getting any eq beginning of wipe and are the only ones pking normally and have always used bots, so wtf cares about myth being scared of dennis crew you guys have way to much people anyways so dennis needs those bots to get you gramm and level the playing field ffs!

I really tried to read your running sentences, but you need to help your readers out here. use period, commas, and short sentences. paragraphs also will help.

Super Tacoman

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2016, 09:05:48 AM »
Terk - What is the difference between playing 2 characters from 1 IP vs. having a mercenary that heals, bashes, picks, etc.?

one nice difference is that a mercenary doesnt steal my precious limited equipment.  or at least makes it a bit more awkward to store that equipment.

i like terks idea.

you could also make it so they wouldnt listen to you if you were pk flagged. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 09:07:43 AM by Super Tacoman »

Loretta

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2016, 11:21:46 AM »
Botting kill the game - allowing it would move us into state when you cant find a team at all.

Dyl

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2016, 06:51:17 PM »
"I got oligooed"

It's probably time for another fund raiser/t-shirt drive.

Jorake

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Re: Multi-ing / Botting
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2016, 11:19:26 PM »
Lottie... You are one of the oldest botters around! Shesh too has used many heal bots. BSP in general used a ton of bots.

Logging on to find 5 people on, no one 25+ or just differing classes(no heals). What choices do I have? Play 2 chars(multi, because I cant script for shit) So i can be able to play a little bit when i have tme to play OR log off and go play a different mud. Which Is what I've been doing!

Allowing EVERYONE to play 2 chars from the same IP would honestly make things look fuller, would fill grousp up when no one is around. Let us solo(2man) some game content so we can enjoy the game as well. And the BIGGEST BIGGEST BIGGEST REASON!!!<-- It is already and has been happening for bapting years. RISE bots like a motherbapter, CORE bots like a mother bapter, Every clan (except Myth MAYBE) has botted for so long. It hasn't stopped, it wont stop and it can't be stopped. So evening out the playing field seems like the logical next step.