Author Topic: Moving Forward  (Read 33794 times)

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Jorake

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2016, 07:05:50 PM »
I think everything but limit 1-4 items should be unlimited.

Jorake

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2016, 07:09:13 PM »
I also think a new class would be bapting amazing. Bard or Monk or illusionist. Something to spice up the norm

merk

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2016, 09:01:11 PM »
Equipment : I'm sorry, are you trolling right now? Limits on equipment in general are phenomenal. The amount of powerful equipment in the game has  NEVER been higher. You couldn't max out the low limit (below 3) equipment in the game if you tried. While I don't mean to be totalitarian, there's practically zero chance item limits across the board will be raised because there's just no point - you're already spoiled for choice.
I think  you should provide data to back this up. Which items get maxxed out?  And you mentioned "phenomenal" --  for which type of player (the hardcore player or the middle or newbie)?

my hunch is that most of the eq will be in the 1% (in this case 4 players within CORE) and the 99% of players will never ever see this eq.

This creates a chasm between "CORE" and everyone else, which decreases competition and makes the game boring for everyone.


Kadaj

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2016, 11:06:03 PM »
The only reason "CORE" has all the equipment is because we are the only ones playing. When Wild/MYTH and RISE were active, we had 1/4 of the equipment we do now. Tip: Don't quit.

mikey

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2016, 03:40:04 AM »
I think everything but limit 1-4 items should be unlimited.

I'd really love to see this, and I agree with Tacoman - i just don't see what it would hurt.

You could make the extra items no rent, no trade, decay on drop, or whatever.  It would be nice know you are going to be able to get some halfway decent gear whenever you needed it.

Valenore

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #80 on: August 06, 2016, 07:43:52 AM »
I think 20year veterans should get full game knowledge.  like mystic vault and crap.

My problem is what game knowledge entails.  Most of game knowledge comes down to guessing obscure keyword combinations or reading through room description after room description.  I don't mind exploring in that I might stumble into a room with mobs that destroy me but I have better things to do play with Thesaurus.com open in another window trying to guess what synonym of a verb I should be using or if I am using the correct set of arguments with it.

Unfortunately, since Arctic is text based the design space to introduce complicated fight mechanics, mazes, or other types of game knowledge are fairly limited.

Valenore

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2016, 07:50:12 AM »
I think everything but limit 1-4 items should be unlimited.

A solution that would probably be too difficult to implement.  Make two versions of the non-elite limit items (i.e. normal version A "A spiked wrist buckler" and new version B "a spiked wrist buckler").  Both have the same stats with version A being the current limit and loading rules and version B being unlimit with low load %.  Normal A retains the current decay timer and rent cost.  New B decays faster and has a higher rent cost (very high if not equipped).  Version B should probably be no-locate also (death load or flagged).

Under that system, you do get rewarded for getting the limit version of an item (keeps some of the fun of rushing at beginning of wipe, still makes a version A from a harder zones which isn't spammed more valuable than a similar item's version B from a spammed zone) but you get rewards for grinding late in wipes (If all I have time to do is solo or all I do is play with a friend or two I can get a good set of gear by grinding). 

merk

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2016, 10:49:00 AM »
  • I believe the current eq loading system in reality only benefits the hardcore player. The new and median player really don't have any shot of popping the good eq even when doing the same zones. Again we could probably test this theory by making most items unlimited or %. Any healthy game needs an influx of NEW people not relying on the same people in WILD/RISE/CORE to balance the game out.
  • I believe people want a level playing field with others and want the same equitable chance to pop the eq. This is apparent since the mud becomes alive during the wipe, and dead once most of the equipment is gone, or when 1 clan has won the game.

Again all these "beliefs" can be proven out by experimenting and measurements.

Kadaj -- if we are serious about growing the game, we can't be always relying on the same players in the same clans (WILD/CORE/RISE). New players have to replace older players as they stop playing. The game is not very fun for new players -- unable to find a group, unable to get any sort of equipment in the same zones.

Jorquin--  you mentioned that you want to make decisions that benefit the most people, and have open lines of communication. I think its apparent that most people find the current limit item system broken and not very equitable, and yet you are being a totalitarian in this decision to not change things. How do you reconcile the two?

I firmly believe the game needs to start looking at statistics and measurements. It needs to change the game to allow new players to enjoy the same game as the hardcore players.

As a returning "new" player this wipe, I found myself unable to find a group (solved by botting/mutlting?),  find any sort of real  equipment that made my game easier (solved by increasing eq limits or changing eq to %), and not having any chance when you are pk'd by stronger players ( solved by allowing the new player to get eq and have groups).



eddiex

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #83 on: August 06, 2016, 11:22:09 AM »
I think everyone who is continuously lobbying one idea here whether it be equipment or multiing etc should be ashamed of themselves. Here we have new staff willing to consider new ideas and you guys sit and force your opinions regarding singular topics down their throat.

Merk, while some agree with you, you are completely off base in many of your assumptions. You do realize that the total number of players from RISE/CORE/WILD and the Finns, Danes, Russians when they play are extremely capable and represent the majority of Arctics population.

This idea that the equipment is just gone at some point is patently false. I played for about 20 hours solo recently (or less), and was able to load 3 str rings, 2 str wrists, a lim 2 wrist work, 2 dex 8 disable 8 envenom plate, str about worn, str arm worn, 2 dex invis/det invis ring.

Any player who commits a reasonable amount of time during a week or two of play (at most) should be able to obtain what they want or something similar with proper game knowledge.

A casual player has casual gear. (Example: If I camp, or fish, or invest small amounts of time in any other hobby... I don't get all the top of the line shit. It is illogical to think otherwise in any other capacity of your life.) Work hard, get rewarded.

Having a deeper understanding of the game will allow you to acquire more desirable equipment. Expecting handouts from the imms is unfair to the people who spent years and countless hours exploring, bartering, and improving their understanding of the game. These people and their associates make up the majority of the population and when they quit there is plenty to be had if you so desire it. Prior to them quitting.  If you desire to join the competition for limited resources, a casual approach does not suffice.

Regarding the issue of equipment limits, you have made your point. Continually posting and lobbying this idea, spouting falsities and questioning the staffs integrity or logic does not foster a communal attitude towards change. A spiteful person would do nothing to help you and even the most measured will get wore down at the incessant insistence that your idea is the right one.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 11:48:26 AM by eddiex »

Kadaj

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2016, 11:53:24 AM »
A casual player has casual gear.  Work hard, get rewarded.

Expecting handouts from the imms is unfair to the people who spent years and countless hours exploring, bartering, and improving their understanding of the game.

Pretty much this. The casual player should indeed have casual gear. Let's face it, this game is old as dirt. There's not a giant flow of new players. Yes, when one does come around it would be great if we could keep them here. 90% of the people playing this game have been playing for over 10 years. I know when there WERE people playing, CORE was open to inviting them to group if they had room. Bringing them through zones they would otherwise not be able to do. Coddling newbs is something Arctic has never done and I don't think it will in the future.  Ask to join a group, log zones and learn. Find like minded individuals who want to explore with you.   

Gear is everywhere, you just have to go past your normal zones that are spammed and dig a little deeper.

Oligo

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2016, 12:46:36 PM »
There's not a giant flow of new players.

There are no new players. Every "new" Arctic player is a recycle from a prior wipe.

merk

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #86 on: August 06, 2016, 02:56:46 PM »
I apologize if my last statement seemed like I was questioning someone's integrity. My main point is being lost, which is to use experimentation and data backed decisions.

Everyone's view point is biased and mine is biased mostly on the experience I had during this return as a "new " player.

I would love to get to the point where we are discussing numbers, data, and graphs.




Super Tacoman

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #87 on: August 06, 2016, 03:00:20 PM »
I think everyone who is continuously lobbying one idea here whether it be equipment or multiing etc should be ashamed of themselves. Here we have new staff willing to consider new ideas and you guys sit and force your opinions regarding singular topics down their throat.

Merk, while some agree with you, you are completely off base in many of your assumptions. You do realize that the total number of players from RISE/CORE/WILD and the Finns, Danes, Russians when they play are extremely capable and represent the majority of Arctics population.

This idea that the equipment is just gone at some point is patently false. I played for about 20 hours solo recently (or less), and was able to load 3 str rings, 2 str wrists, a lim 2 wrist work, 2 dex 8 disable 8 envenom plate, str about worn, str arm worn, 2 dex invis/det invis ring.

Any player who commits a reasonable amount of time during a week or two of play (at most) should be able to obtain what they want or something similar with proper game knowledge.

A casual player has casual gear. (Example: If I camp, or fish, or invest small amounts of time in any other hobby... I don't get all the top of the line shit. It is illogical to think otherwise in any other capacity of your life.) Work hard, get rewarded.

Having a deeper understanding of the game will allow you to acquire more desirable equipment. Expecting handouts from the imms is unfair to the people who spent years and countless hours exploring, bartering, and improving their understanding of the game. These people and their associates make up the majority of the population and when they quit there is plenty to be had if you so desire it. Prior to them quitting.  If you desire to join the competition for limited resources, a casual approach does not suffice.

Regarding the issue of equipment limits, you have made your point. Continually posting and lobbying this idea, spouting falsities and questioning the staffs integrity or logic does not foster a communal attitude towards change. A spiteful person would do nothing to help you and even the most measured will get wore down at the incessant insistence that your idea is the right one.

you are not who i thought you were eddiex.  shame on everyone else for trying to have a discussion about something we feel strongly about and then insult us for a while?  flamewar on?

p.s. right now (Total visible people : 6        Total people online  : 6) might not be the best time to try to judge if there is enough equipment for everyone.

p.p.s. i still havent heard anyone give any good reason why more mid level equipment would be a bad thing.  except your argument that we are bad so we dont deserve items.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 03:28:11 PM by Super Tacoman »

Chisul

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2016, 03:18:42 PM »
My two cents on equipment.

Having just returned to playing, I'm finding a metric shit ton of gear in mid level zones. The kind of zone a high level char can breeze through in minutes. Plus I found several items loaded I have never (in 18+ years of playing) seen before. A two save neckworn comes to mind in a spot I've farmed for coins thousands of times over the years...and never seen.

Also we need to remember the world merchant has dumped many many items into playing availability. Checking the world merchant has netted me some really good stuff that someone just didn't want/need.

My point is that now is a great time to explore to learn new zones and eq loads. The stuff is loading, so go learn it.

eddiex

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #89 on: August 06, 2016, 04:10:16 PM »
you are not who i thought you were eddiex.  shame on everyone else for trying to have a discussion about something we feel strongly about and then insult us for a while?  flamewar on?

p.s. right now (Total visible people : 6        Total people online  : 6) might not be the best time to try to judge if there is enough equipment for everyone.

p.p.s. i still havent heard anyone give any good reason why more mid level equipment would be a bad thing.  except your argument that we are bad so we dont deserve items.

Supertacoman, you wrote:

"you must be talking about super high level zones.  because in the mid-high range everything is gone all wipe.  even when only like 15 people were playing at the end of the 2015 wipe it was just empty zone after empty zone.  day after day with 0 loads.  its depressing.  not everyone who plays this game can clear the high content."

I gave an example that this is not true, then you double back by saying there are only a few players now so it's not the best time to discuss.  Are you ignorant of your own hypocrisy?  You also said that items you were interested in were 1 stat items or body dam.  Are you aware that there are at least two commonly known zones in the game that load an unlimited body dam?


I am not opposed to raising the limit on mid level gear (but I am not of the belief that it is a necessity) and I am in favor of every limited item having a static decay timer that runs whether in game or in rent.

The point of my last post:
The staff member (Jorquin) who opened and is monitoring this discussion has already addressed or given a fairly clear response to certain ideas here.  Even after his response people continue to lobby, question, and contradict.  Furthermore, if people have new ideas to add that have not already been discussed it could be much easier to overlook with all the politicking going on.

Regarding equipment limits
"Equipment : I'm sorry, are you trolling right now? Limits on equipment in general are phenomenal. The amount of powerful equipment in the game has  NEVER been higher. You couldn't max out the low limit (below 3) equipment in the game if you tried. While I don't mean to be totalitarian, there's practically zero chance item limits across the board will be raised because there's just no point - you're already spoiled for choice."

Regarding multiing
"For the moment just drop the multi-ing / botting discussion. I dont want it to hijack the thread. Clearly it is a discussion that needs to take place but Id like to have a clearer understanding of the opinions of other staff first. I'll create a separate thread at a later stage to address it."

Regarding item decay
"Decay timers - Will be looked at in due course, but as it would have to be done on a case by case basis there's better "bang for buck" in terms of effort expenditure right now. The bangle of awesomeness lasting an extra week isn't a strong encouragement for people to return to Arctic."