Author Topic: Moving Forward  (Read 44169 times)

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Super Tacoman

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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2016, 05:50:48 AM »
eddiex "blah blah blah elitist nonsense...i want a flame war!"

me "are you sure?  this doesnt seem like the right time"

eddiex " i loaded this and that!  i am the greatest!  you noob and hippo!  i demand the flamewar!"
me "ok"
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 07:08:44 AM by Super Tacoman »


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2016, 07:15:29 AM »
Topic: Moving Forward  (Read 1337 times).

Perfect time for me to reply!

eddiex, super tacoman, thanks for fighting on the front lawn. Cool it, nobody's gonna win.

Jorquin, Keila - good luck with moving the game forward.. or well, a little backward, and then forward, I guess? :/

Everyone else - thank you for all of your responses, keep it up. For the most part some good ideas coming out.

My take:

- Heal is broken. Please fix it. It's.. I mean, it's heal, man. Or rename is cure extreme, but don't toy with people's emotions like this.

- Huma is broken. Please fix it. It's.. I mean, it's humas, man! Or rename it shiny tin shield or something, but don't toy with people's emotions like this.

- Weapons are broken. Please fix them. I mean, you already said yes, so great! Thank you. lol 2d6 errything.

Someone said not too many posts ago that the main focus everyone seems to have is on making the game better for the players we already have rather than attracting new players. I don't disagree with that, and I don't disagree with that being the main focus for now.
I think that retaining the current playerbase (quite small, at this stage in the wipe/state of the game) is our utmost obligation. The people who are and have been with us through the ups and downs are our number one asset and our first real obligation is to them and continuing to operate the game that they love/are irrevocably addicted to.
These are the people who will reach out to other former players, who have quit this wipe or in wipes recently past, or even some many years ago to bring them back to the game. These are the people we want to be able to retain most of all. They get it, they know what to expect, they're hunting the old feelings the game used to rouse in them.
Then, with them on board, we can start to really bring in new players.
In my experience people who play the game bring new people to the game more than any amount of shoddy advertising or spamvoting were ever able to get us. The learning curve here is steep, it's really bapting steep. I still have the hand drawn map of Port Balifor that my friend Anthony made for me while he was working at a gas station down the street from my house so that I could get around town while he couldn't log to lead me around. Let's sate the wants and needs of the people who love us anyway, or at least loved us once before and then we can go find some new victims.

That being said, here's the other stuff I think, in no particular order:

- Group limit. I feel like 10 has been great, 8 I'm okay with but lower would need some light nerfing of zones here and there. As ever if you have 12 on and the limit is 10 I can never understand why people don't break into two groups of 6 and crush. Apart from the real end game stuff it's not hard to roll through most high zones with a solid 6 man, even a rickety one can be passable for a lot of stuff.

- Ranks. I think ranks are fine, they cost too many goddamn coins though. I spend a ton of time just running zones for coins which is really not how I want to spend my limited playtime now that I'm all grown up with a job and shit. In high school sure I could spam all day and not give a shit, but now? C'mon! That being said I wouldn't mind seeing some of the skill ranks return or more class specific stuff. Low priority.

- PK. Am I a lunatic if I said why not just reduce all player vs player damage by 50% and see what happens? I bet Oligo can link an epic log or fifty of the PK world of old where almost nobody landed a massacre on another player, let alone triple oblit them. (My ideas get more crazy with aggressors not being able to recall/teleport/etc and on and on, but flags have always been undependable in this regard, I feel).

- Decay timers. Hold fast, see the 'Deep renting' comment below. I think these could use a gentle rebalancing throughout the game. I've had a lot of stuff the last few wipes that seemed to run away from me awful quick while other stuff I literally never had to repop. I'd say a little longer on the ultra high end, and shorter the easier the items get to pop.

- Deep renting. I'd love to see a way to make all items go rent_decay after a certain period of time in rent/rent costs compounding over time with some sort of time in rent/time online ratio level that you'd need to maintain to keep rent cheap. If you're on everyday and running around I don't think you should get penalized, but if you log once a week or less and you're still holding on to something invariably valuable, that's a bit lame. I feel like the original rent decay program was meant to handle this but maybe it's broken or just not widely used enough?

- Clans. Someone mentioned removing clan sizes.. I don't really find a downside, can anyone? It's really just a coin sink/hassle for chieftains, right?

- Healing cloud. I don't know what's happened to it this wipe, but the first iteration was dope as bapt. Too dope. It needed some nerfing but it sounds like it's been hamstrung. It should be more useful, and land 100%, but it shouldn't work in nomagic.

- Books. Chaos ball book is amazing, but then my clan got stun, prism, fireshield, mirror and tent from Noom in a day, so maybe I'm bias? (All I ever personally got was recharge, btw.) It's a good thing to have in the game, we never would have been able to pk the shit out of Wild that wipe (shutup) if we didn't have those spells that we never could have gotten through normal means (big green, at the time, I believe?). It was a great wipe! Cleric books have been unloved since time immemorial. I created a new set of them wipes and wipes ago but they were never implemented. Let me know if you'd like to take a look. Druid and shaman tabs/charms are the worst. I feel like spelling a mage is 100 times easier than spelling a druid or shaman, and spelling a cleric up until golden books is the easiest of all. Book loads in general need a good bit of lovin'.

- Skills. Ease the grind, I agree. Some stuff isn't that bad, like whoever mentioned camp, that's super easy, but mend/lore and especially that shitty shaman spell that nukes charmies.. Oh the times I've spent on a mage with triggers to let someone skill that horrible thing. The actual worst. (Also, classes that have skills at such a low level cap that it isn't even worth actually having that skill -- scout rescue I'm looking at you -- should either be removed or at least increased to a level of moderate usefulness).

- Item sets. Yes, we all agree I think, bring back some of the old ones, keep the new ones, but I'd add that maybe slight debuffing of a couple might be in order.

- Whoever wanted to bring back Tantallon, I hate you. Someone wants to build a new one without Thavian's influence, go for it. We replaced Thavianland with Bertilland. See help area creator bertil for more information.

- XP tables. I'd love to see a light easing up from 13-25, for the potential noobs one day, but for the rest of us that run from 27-30 is brutal. The run from 30-1X could be harder, though, particularly if there was a reason to be 1X anymore. We should find one. I always turn the xp off in my prompt when I hit 28 because I just can't take it anymore.

- HP. Scouts need the love, but it would be great if we could show that love specifically to ocean scouts mostly, mountain scouts second and sky scouts barely. The beauty of an ocean scout main isn't often realized.

- Rent cities. The idea that we would condense players and make life easier seems to have missed the mark. Let's open up the market for innkeepers again.

- Disorientation/disoriented/etc. Can we please, for the love of all the gods, remove this garbage?

- Locate. Astral locate should die forever and we should start passing out nolocate flags like candy for low limit items and higher level books.

- Vigor. Mobs really shouldn't have this. Especially big mobs, but really any mob ever. If it meant that it'd have to go away completely, I'd prefer that to having the damned sailors pop back to perfect every tick!

And now for the 'Vuddy will code.' section where in the role of Vuddy is played by myself and Rafo:

- Pets. Can we make pets for all the classes? It'd maybe alleviate some of the desire/feeling of need for botting/multiing if we could make them useful enough. Just restrict it so they can't be used in groups anymore, or in groups of a certain size or something. Make all of the classes more similar to mages? I really enjoyed levelling up all my little mage pets and being able to pull out different ones based on what was happening. It's easily the best idea I've had lately. I can expand pretty wildly on this.

- Quests. We put in this quests system and I feel like it's incredibly underutilized. It needs some love from the creation side.

- Other quests. Looking at you, Archimedes. I have no problem digging around and finding the broken ends of things and fixing them. Balia hasn't been able to play dice for years now and it's disappointing.

- Tournaments. I've never been a fan of the always available arena idea, but I've run a decent tournament or two in my time. The game needs them for sanity, I think.

- Events. Seasonally we used to do great things for the game, they helped for big transitions of new zones going in or revamps or whatever, or just cause it was shark week and people wanted to kill some sharks, whatever the case, these were fun to make and run and people seemed to enjoy them. We should get back to it.

TL;DR: Make Arctic great again.


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2016, 10:27:32 AM »

Perfect time for me to reply!

eddiex, super tacoman, thanks for fighting on the front lawn. Cool it, nobody's gonna win.

World Star Nigga.


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2016, 01:59:45 PM »
Well damn. Kam. ... Someone make this guy a 34-35 with creation access, and let's make it happ'n cap'n.

And god yes do we need more tournaments and events. I remember the Jason Voorhees quest thing around halloween some years ago. We got to go in and kill zombies and loaded that machete thing. That was a bapting awesome weekend-week whatever it was. We just moved away from all that stuff though it seems. Maybe its coding issues, idk. I would be willing to help host/plan an event/quest/tournament though. Some imm could make all the items and then I would organize and oversee. Let me know!


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2016, 07:55:09 PM »
I just can't wait to pk all of you.


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2016, 06:42:17 AM »
I've been away and figured I'd post something here after reading up on the upcoming changes.

I'm a second gen mudder. My dad has told me a lot about the game's past (getting PK'd for your lovely 2d5++ weapon or something, or getting charged for drinking from the tarsis fountain.) I don't think I would have stayed around Arctic if PK was as prevalent now as it was back then (plus I suck at it anyway) so there is that. I've been playing arctic on and off for around 5 years and there is still a lot about the game I don't know. I've been piggybacking on my dad's hand drawn maps from years ago, and on the more noob-friendly players and clans. Sort of like the old AFKK. That WAS a thing, right?!

I find it fun having strong characters to play. It's probably because I'm doing something wrong (even as a legend paladin a few wipes ago, when stats and weapons weren't as poor as they are now, I was still struggling to solo a lot of stuff). But I liked the prospect of being able to walk around carefree, for the most part, and do some exploring. DT exploring is a pastime of mine, it seems. Getting to tag along with a large group for things I'd never even hoped to see (cyan) is also very fun. (Myth rocks!)

Having buff characters does raise problems for other people though, who get their enjoyment from PK or other PVP related things such as large clan battles. I wouldn't know, I haven't been around long enough, I guess. Scripting beyond setting up an auto splitter or recall hotkey/substitutions is still a mystery to me. But from my perspective, I really enjoyed being able to hit up the larger fights, see tons of neat items, and just explore around.

I see all this talk of whether 20 year veterans should get full game knowledge. I'm sure if I had even half that information I would be a much better player. I wouldn't have to get babied through everything by the people who know it all already. But then again, there ARE still people willing to take people like me on, and the less I know, the more fun exploring can be. Most of the time, at least when I'm not walking off cliffs...

I'll definitely be checking into the game again sometime soon! Here's just hoping there will still be a place for me.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 06:44:53 AM by Rednax »


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2016, 07:41:50 AM »
I just can't wait to pk all of you.

Don't worry, Bryton's pk is nothing to fear.


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #97 on: August 08, 2016, 03:30:27 PM »
IM FREE! RGB will fukcing reborn! Die Wilds.
btw can we have back 23 str mino mages?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 04:41:35 PM by Loretta »


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2016, 10:03:52 PM »
On Kam's Points:

Heal: fix it slightly.  Heal Cloud is bad.  Otherwise it works ok for the most part.  It needed a mild nerf not a super nerf.

Huma - Don't care, never had, probably never will. 

Weapons - Reason I left 6 months ago, I couldn't take fighting with a butter knife, yes I can kill shit but I don't have a million free hours to do it.  I like to get zones done fast and quickly.  I lose attention and focus otherwise - ask Gram, he can confirm.

Groups - 10 limit is fine if you have enough online.  It sucks being sidelined when you have an 8 man running Cyan or some other boss mob/zone and you are the odd man out.  Also, if they (the other 10 man) is running a 3 hour zone and you have other things in life, more likely than not I will log and do other shit, thus reducing playing times.   Yes, I can run or be in other groups, but it's not as fun as being able to group all your old friends. 

Ranks - For the most part it's balanced, but I've seen a few glaring holes and would love to see some improvements.   1. put a level cap ranks, so for example 2 low-mid zones have more ranks than say a mid-high and anyone can still rank off of these mobs.  That's not right, plus it takes away a low zone from players because some asshat has razed the higher level rank only mobs.    For example - Matthias Manor has a large number of mobs that are rank (most of the zone), whereas Que Kiri a higher level zone has what 8 mobs that are rank.     I would also love to see quest ranks, makes it worth running quests and doing KW's for more than just the experience.   

Pk - I love an hate PK, but it's been a part of the game and should remain a part.  Maybe tweak it a little to make p v p battles require more tact and planning.   

Decay Timers/Short Term and Long Term Renting -  I agree there needs to be a better balance.   If I play more and have more time to play then I am not worrying about coins for rent and keeping my hard earned pops.  However, if I have a job or other life requirements now, that leaves me only a few hours a week to play, during which time my friends and I pop some nice gear, then I shouldn't be penalized.   However, it's also not fair that someone can rent an elite item for 6 months and still have it when they return.  There needs to be a fair balance so the casual player can work m-f and play on weekends and still have the opportunity to have nice gear.  Sometimes life throws us a curveball.  However, the hardcore players usually aren't worried about losing eq.  So if we play more maybe extend our timers a week or so. 

Clan Sizes are fine, most of us have 2-3 chars and we usually pay the boss for more spots. 

Books and Spells in General - Where do I begin....I like that we have to pop books for spells and some should be harder or a less % load.  But to have to run the same bapting zone over and over and over and over and over and over and 3 months later still no spell, that well blows and kills morale.  Or maybe make more books load in newer spots,  I mean I love Terzak and ToT, but spamming it, isn't on my list of fun activities in Arctic.  I know there are plenty of other mages and cleric mobs that could potentially load stuff.  --Basically, I see it like this - Dash comes - everyone wants to power level a main or non caster, so they can be legend quickly. Then the guy who heals or plays the caster has to hunt alongside many others to fight for a few spells. Then, next thing you know, these non caster type chars are legend in a few days or weeks whereas my cleric, druid or mage may still not make legend after 3 months. Meanwhile, we spam the same spell loads over and over, until we get sick bored of spamming rivermaster.  Then finally once we get the spells, most folks are bored and have quit for the wipe.

Skills -  God Bless You Kam.  Yeah some skills are completely broke, some are horrible to train and never used after that, some are actually useful and although a pain, still enough.   The shaman dispels the druid elementals comes to mind for example.   There are too many to list here, but a complete overhaul on the skill system needs to be assessed.   On that note :  Into the breach is broken as hell.  There needs to be a better way for barbs to turn it on and off.  Wasting 2-3 rounds before the first rescue fires off is bad.  I know other have argued about this and I've seen plenty of fights in my clan alone about this.  Either get rid of it, make wardance auto rescue again or allow for it the be engaged and disengaged like fence out of battle. 

Item Sets:  Yes more sets. 

XP Tables:  It took me 24 hours of game time to make it to 25 recently. So that's like 2 days of 12 hours of play,so that's about a fair pace.  I think once you get over 25 the wall is rough and agree it's just about ranks at that point and skilling for hours upon hours to make a legend. 

Inn's and rentals - more is good, even promote free trade and have the innkeepers compete.  I don't think Myth has had an inn in it's SH in wipes, pretty useless if you ask me.  Make it worth it to us.

Vigor/Disorientation - Make it harder for mobs to land?   

Locate of Spells -  Agreed on this.

Pets - Yeah make a few things better. This would need work to make it balanced.  For example animate dead and gates are pretty powerful if used properly together. 

Quests/Extra Content - I'm open for this.  I also think you could give rank points for some quests, ofc make sure it's balanced and not easily abused.   

As far as bringing back broken zones and whatnot, I agree with Kam, they need to be different and revamped.  Look at Ghostbusters remake, horrible.  We don't want the same with Tantallon, let's make it better and completely different.  Changing zone content and the redundancy of playing zones is what I feel has driven off some of our players.   Personally I love the new Dargaard and Neraka for example.   

Thanks to the staff.   

If I can help anywhere let me know, I'm down to create or help run some quests or tourney's.   I've been around this damn game for long enough and it's about time I help contribute. 



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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2016, 02:46:44 AM »
A few observations...

sets, weapon damage, reinstating inns - everyone agrees, I have confidence it will get done. 

Heal/healing cloud - you have to gear up!  That said, I would like to see more 5% healing done items in the game to help the casual player.

Group size: whatever, there are pros and cons to just about any group size.  I would suggest 12 on wipe day, 10 the rest of wipe week, 8 from then on, just to help returning players find groups.

Pets: Shaman and Cleric pets are the reward for the suckdom of skilling (shaman) or the boredom of playing (cleric).  Druids should be able to have multiple elementals (3-5) if they use stones, that would be my only suggestion.

Load rates and limits are probably not going to undergo a massive change.  It would require someone to go through every zone and change the files for every object.  Besides which, there is more than enough gear.  I am not an elite mudder and I can pop whatever I need on my own most of the time.  If you are looking for elite gear - it pops in elite zone.  I'm not saying it to be an asshat, I just mean that there has to be a risk/reward ratio in place.  Cyan and Blaze load crazy awesome stuff because they take a lot of very good players a lot of time to kill, and a lot of people die in the process, and the risk of losing all your gear in the process is very real.  If you are mad because the plus damage waist from DKO is maxed its because the risk/reward is askew, those sorts of items are in the game so that casual players have a chance, but just a chance.  If you are having trouble loading basic, solid gear (2d7+ weapons, dam body, strength finger/wrist, -svs, 3cl items) message me and I will try to help you with some high % places to load it.

PK - I like the % -dam in PvP idea, at least test it out for a wipe and then revisit it.

Tantallon - feel free to make a map and write out 100 rdescs, 6 rexdescs per room, 3 redescs per room, as well as a list of mobs and where you would like them to load, with descriptions of those.  There are someone people who love making zones but hate writing descriptions.  Given that work I am sure the zone would be made.  I do miss the basilisk and hobgoblin section of Phaethon village...

Paladins - first strike takes a huge nerf and paladins become human (or elven) shields with limited ability to solo (unless you want to spend a LOT of time fighting).  Now we are suggesting extending the cool-down on Freedom?  Dont do that: just re-implement the quests.  Getting freedom in previous wipes was really hard, most wipes there are only 5-7 paladins in the game who have it.  Problem solved.  Also, make strike suck slightly less - it doesn't have to be the OP damage machine it used to be, but since it is the only offense in a paladin's arsenal it shouldn't be just an extra hit.

Clan size, ranks - they seem fine to me, I don't understand the issue...

Until next time - Alecto Moveit Moveit


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2016, 03:43:03 PM »
I like a lot of Kam's ideas.

Coins.....Please reduce rent in SH inns and for ranks.  It would be fun to actually change ranks around to play a different play style without having to pay 250k or more to change, not like something and go back.  What is the risk of having people swap ranks around for much less?

Decay timers - What if all items had a % to load rate instead of max limit?  I mean, would it really hurt the game if at one given time there were 3 old huma haste shields going around?  2 wyrmslaying wielding players?  As I grow older I find it harder and harder to want to get elite items with lower play time, it just is not possible unless you get lucky. 

What are people's thoughts on this change?  It would be a big one for arctic but why not try it one wipe and just see?


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2016, 04:20:39 PM »
I like eric's idea of reducing rank costs.  I agree, it would be fun to be able to switch ranks around to prep for certain things.  5 - 15k for ranks would be nice.  Then if you had to swap out 3 or 4 ranks, it would be doable.


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2016, 05:40:38 PM »
Yes reduce rank costs, but lowering rent values is an invitiation to deeprent : p and horde all the nice gear on one person : p


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2016, 06:14:48 PM »
I agree with Eric on two points, first reduce rent at SH back down to same as other inns.  Clan already pays a decent chunk of change to build the thing, the 1.5X rent is quite vexing.

Secondly, having spent 750k on haste this wipe, I'm now "stuck" with it.  Don't get me wrong, hasted basher is fun BUT given that it costs 28 points AND 750,000 coins it leaves me no room to do anything else (and yes I know haste is quite powerful so maybe not a great example). 

One idea that could be interesting, although it would require coding, would be once you've purchased a rank at full price, its cost is reduced to say 10% of original cost.  That way you could purchase ranks and swap them around at a fraction of the cost.  That'd still mean it'd cost me 75k to drop haste for other things, which is not an insignificant sum, but that'd be worth it for certain big fights.  The overhead might be too much though.

Deep renting has always been an issue, not sure why certain items don't decay in rent while other items do.  Items should universally decay in rent or the imms should be much more active about pzrenting people.  You shouldn't be able to horde an item for 3 months w/o logging, unless significant changes are made to how an item loads (which from the sound of it would be a painstaking task). 

Sets ... bring em back

... heal changes make certain fights a lot easier, I mean A LOT easier.  Cure critical does more than heal in some instances for some mobs, so that's a little broken. 

Druids either need a better pet OR multiple stone charms, both would require coding but they kinda get the shaft in this front. 

Shamans are just too damn powerful relative to other classes, I understand it's a grind to legend them but they're beasts compared to the lowly warrior.  I get it, each class is different but it sucks when you see people soloing CT for coins and you're stuck HOPING that the ancient red dragon doesn't kill you.  In other words, more balance across the classes would be nice.  And maybe I'm just griping because I mained a warrior this wipe.

It'd be nice to see all races have same stats, have legendary races get other advantages.  I guess the stat changes will be less significant once weapon weights are changed but maintaining a 28 strength is probably the most annoying thing about this wipe.


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Re: Moving Forward
« Reply #104 on: August 11, 2016, 07:20:44 AM »
Yes clan size should be removed its a hassle and waste of time and people are forced to not be able to join a clan which all you needed to do is say hey can I be in the clan? Yes! ok your in?! I mean if anything it should be STRONGHOLD Size because we are all renting in cities anyways how could a clan not hold enough people?
it should be a stronghold that cannot hold people, You should be able to have as many people in a clan as you want. In order to find people, We should not let mages be able to trash teleport! Instead make a new class or CHARMIE that is able to track people and make it a good track that lets you find people and maybe somehow uses a clairvoyance skill as well but will be able to have some temporal path for group to see that is not broken and can land tracks that leads to a door or kw people are hiding behind.If this is possible and this class/charmie should only be able to be played/created/made available when you have a CLAN? probably be pretty cool.
If it could be some charmie you could summon by having to collect a certain something from a zone or something that way we could engage other clans at this new zone because people would have to go there to get this charmie in order to find another clan  or just make it so you can purchase it at your local city mercenary tent that wont be a peace room! can have 1 per clan non targetable does not engage but only last 1 hour or something?