Author Topic: PK Rules  (Read 11104 times)

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Jorquin

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2016, 03:40:17 PM »
Limiting groups of people ("playing groups") to having 8 people involved in their pk helps removes the "horde" strategy which the majority of the player base cannot compete with.

Winning a battle / war with 16 people when your opponent has 10 does not make you better, more intelligent, more decisive, and should be a hollow victory. In real life when a group of 10 people beat up a group of 5 people they are labeled cowards, I've never understood how this is any different on Arctic. My only assumption is some people are so afraid of failing that they'd prefer to settle for a hollow, cowardly victory... but I digress.

The PK rule helps even the playing field by preventing masses of cowards from banding together to shamelessly beat down on others using an overwhelming numbers advantage. I would have thought people would welcome a fairer, more even and more competitive playing field so that winning actually means something.

Jorake

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 04:11:33 PM »
See. Again I think everyone is missing the point B is trying to make. That means that RISE/CORE(not including MYTH for obvious reasons) could attack every single clan on the mud at once. So now they are fighting every single clan outside of their own. And if they are the buffest/most spelled etc they will win ALL the wars. Because no 2 clans can group up with their best 8 each and go after rise. Because that exceeds the group limit right? So one of the big clans attacks my clan, but are also fighting another clan. We have to wait for that battle to be over to go in and fight with our 8? Is there a waiting period now too? X amount of time has to pass until the 2 small clans aren't thought to be working together? Your logic for this makes 0 sense Imms. 0 sense.

Gnua

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2016, 04:17:50 PM »
Who are the people that are going to abuse it? The only clan that would is Rise. Lurker/btown-- are u core myth outlaw or rise? Or none of the above. If u aren't in those then u don't have 8+ to worry about. If u are in core myth or outlaw what clan is going to attack u? Wild won't unless u attack them. It's unlikely that rise will while wild is playing... So when is this rule going to be abused? If u are in rise and lose all 8 sets,  which I don't think rise would lose an 8v8, u probably should take a break. Even wild getting ckate ambushed by 12 only lost 3 sets.

does this mean that if rise and outlaw team up to fight wild, do rise and outlaw get deleted for bringing 2 groups?
if no, then does wild get deleted when they log 16 to defend themselves?
if yes, does that mean rise can attack myth and core and force them to make sure they do not attack together lest they get deleted?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 05:01:54 PM by gnua »

lurker

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2016, 04:26:01 PM »
Limiting groups of people ("playing groups") to having 8 people involved in their pk helps removes the "horde" strategy which the majority of the player base cannot compete with.

No, it doesn't remove the horde strategy at all. The best strategy is still to bring as many players as possible, you just set an upper limit at 8.  Any clan with fewer than 8 geared skilled pk-optimized characters is still going to be at a disadvantage. Individuals are still at a disadvantage.

EDIT: Indirectly, you made the horde strategy EVEN STRONGER. Prior to this rule, there was a certain unknown factor.  Sure, your horde of 10 might seem big, but what if your enemies allied and brought 14 to fight you? With the new rule, this is no longer a concern. You know you will never face more than a full group. If you have the best geared and ranked group on the mud, you win forever, nothing can ever challenge you.

Basically, you are saying the best 8 players in the game can group up and bully the entire rest of the mud, because no more than one full group is allowed to ever fight them at once.

It's a terrible rule.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:27:48 PM by lurker »

Hoss

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2016, 05:26:42 PM »
Since the most pk action has been Rise killing their own group mates, I am not sure what all this drama is about.

Jorake

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2016, 05:54:24 PM »
The drama is about clarifying the new rule. RISE ain't my favorite people but they always get assbapted when they mess with Wild. I couldn't imagine that rule being put in place if the clan that got killed wasn't Wild.

The drama is wanting to know the fine lines, so that we can play within them. Not a make it up as you go type scenario.

The drama is you or any of the staff have yet to state whether or not if 2 clans get agrod, if they can't both then attack the aggressor with groups lead by 2 different people, not following each other. 

The drama IS we are asking/begging for some light to be shed on the subject and youre standing there with your hand covering the switch.

Zozen

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2016, 06:35:45 PM »

Basically, you are saying the best 8 players in the game can group up and bully the entire rest of the mud, because no more than one full group is allowed to ever fight them at once.

I think everyone is aware of this rule and it has been put into effect in the past:

2) Being a massive jerk:
This rule is vague on purpose. If you are acting like a jerk in multiple
situations, enough that the immortals are made aware of it, you will be
punished.  This includes, but is in no way limited to, killing low level
players for no reason, harassing another player excessively, etc. The
point is: if you cross the line we will step on you.

The drama is about clarifying the new rule. RISE ain't my favorite people but they always get assbapted when they mess with Wild. I couldn't imagine that rule being put in place if the clan that got killed wasn't Wild.

How is this assbapting RISE? They continue to be the most dominant clan on the MUD and have been for years now. If anything, as others have said, it will probably benefit them more than any other clan. Look at their healers, tanks, and casters and tell me they aren't the strongest in the game. Sure there might be a couple chars here and there that are as strong, but you won't find a collection of 8+ that are as strong. Are you saying that CORE/MYTH/Outlaw/LoS/Whoever have been secretly forming a "Coalition of the Willing" to attack RISE with WILD?  Or that they are forming an "Axis of Evil" to attack the good and righteous WILD?  Right.


Jorake

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2016, 08:45:19 PM »
No one is forming anything, but this rule stops that from happening should it need to happen.

As far as Wilds go. You have to be joking right? Apoc fought wilds a few wipes ago and were winning pretty nicely and then portals to buff mobs started opening up in our SH, Wilds were coming to kill my group that I was leading so I was yanked from the group for 3 minutes and tossed into the abyss, while they attacked then put back. This shit happens to every clan that touches wilds, and it has for years.

Oligo

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2016, 11:00:39 PM »
PvP was a lot more exciting 15 years ago or so, because after your group got ambushed you could still log on your trashy alts and try to get revenge. The trash character rules and draconian enforcement made it so that major clans only fight when they are well geared and confident of winning. It may well take weeks to get well geared after being fully wiped.

This point has merit.

Lyam

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2016, 01:32:51 AM »
i think what he is asking is..
if wild and rise each have an 8 man group battling in a zone and some other clan comes in to beat on either side. .. do all clans get in trouble or the 2 helping each other... and how does 1 clan prevent another one helping if they can't bring more ppl to fight...

blackmagus

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2016, 07:52:55 AM »
Sounds like someone's trying to get an okay to split clans in two so when they bring in two 8 man groups, they can feign innocence and not get punished.

snax

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Re: PK Rules - Preview - Official posting and implementation set for 4/1/16
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2016, 10:10:25 AM »
HELP RISE

ArcticMUD is a pkill mud, but while player killing is allowed, it should
not be your only focus.  We know that from the first minute of each wipe
the ambition of rise is only to pkill. There are game mechanisms in place
to make life slightly more difficult for those that actively engage in
player killing.  We also know that those systems will eventually become
compromised or prove fallable due to your collective human resistance to
Hossnet.  Our previous model the T2000 proved useful in eradicating your
interest for a 9th year in a row.  However, this is Immortal Kombat, and
we must score 12 flawless victories to fully crush you.  As such we shall
endeavour to revamp the system with even more game mechanisms.  We'll aim
also to screen through a panel of highly biased immortals for potentially
flagrant violations of the collective stockholder clan, codified as WILD.
The system is not intended to protect people from being pkilled who fail to
use common sense or who draw attention to themselves in a public fashion.
The world is a dangerous place; be smart and your character will live a long
time. Be foolish, and you can expect to die often.

If you attack another player the following will happen:
-You will be flagged as an aggressor for 15 ticks. This will be displayed
when people see your name in a room or in the who list, it will also be
displayed in your score.
-You will not be allowed to enter peacerooms while still flagged as an
aggressor. Keep in mind, this may mean that your recall scroll does not
work as you would expect. Carrying a non-glowing recall might be a good
idea.
-You will be randomly mass deleted.  This may preceed or succeed any
potential gear zapping.
-Mobs may be edited on the fly just to become nohassle in the middle of
the fight.
-Keywords may change, equipment may randomly fall out of your pockets.
Don't like it?  Bend over and scrub that floor.
-Raiden is a Locked character.  Liu Kang is forbidden for Use.  You may use Luke.

That will be all,

-Skynet

lurker

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2016, 10:24:11 AM »
Sounds like someone's trying to get an okay to split clans in two so when they bring in two 8 man groups, they can feign innocence and not get punished.

My mind boggles at these crazy thoughts in your head.

If a clan wanted to feign ignorance, they wouldn't bother to ask for clarification. Do you even know what "ignorance" means? It could be summarized as the absence of information. Asking for further information is the opposite of wanting to remaining ignorant.

Further, if they get an "okay" to split the clan into two groups, then of course shouldn't get punished, what is the point if you can't even trust what the imms say?

Hoss

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2016, 10:58:49 AM »
Here is a little more detail on why I see following this loose rule beneficial.

We are working a lot on game balance, and one of the foundation pieces of this is a player's TTL (time to live). If we cannot look at PvP situations with some baseline data (8v8) it becomes very difficult to see if we are getting close to our goal. We very much want PvP to be more than first team to area wins, we would very much like to add back in skill and increase the TTL to a point where you have enough time to react to a situation.

Bringing more than 8 really doesn't provide us with much, sure you get shinies, but your game isn't going to improve. Which is more important?

btown

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2016, 11:38:27 AM »
I would just prefer if immortals stayed out of pvp like they always have been suppose to do,  and quit messing with the pvp rules unless it is flag systems or whatnot. "or just trash randoming"

The special thing about arctic is its like a mini virtual world where there really were no rules.   Just play it like its real.

To limit group size is a big "we control what you do"  not very arctic mud like.

Stopping people from going over the group limit for zoning is understandable.  To do that to pk is just way to much oversight by the immortals and to much control on the playerbase. 

Also it takes out some serious game dynamics.  One of arctics great draws is that your fate is up to you.  If you have a mega clan unstoppable there has always been an element to mass form to crush these super clans.  Take outlaw from 5-7 wipes ago when they had 10man that was unstoppable until there was almost 30 people taking them out.  That is what makes arctic great.

This rule is so bad.  Makes the game different and less desirable in the long run IMO.  Sure it might not matter right now.. but it will.