Author Topic: PK Rules  (Read 11103 times)

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reed23

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PK Rules
« on: January 04, 2016, 09:49:27 AM »
I was recently warned that if we bring more than the group limit to another PK that our whole clan will be deleted.  I want clarification for myself and for others.  Is bringing more than the group limit against PK rules, and is this a new rule or an old rule?  I recall several of PK wars with clans bringing 15-30 characters to fight.  Thank you for the clarification.

Hoss

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2016, 05:20:10 PM »
This will be a new rule going forward and I will see about getting the HELP PKILL file updated as soon as possible.

The main reason we would like to limit players both in PvE and PvP to the group limit (whatever that ends up being), is that so we can monitor the power scale and figure out what the real sweet spot is. If groups are overriding the group limit it doesn't offer us the data we would otherwise use to make better decisions.

reed23

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 09:41:38 AM »
Thanks for the clarification.

btown

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 09:57:47 AM »
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 06:47:37 AM by btown »

btown

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 10:00:31 AM »
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 06:47:46 AM by btown »

corey

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 04:57:22 PM »
Sounds pretty straightforward, why do you think those are grey areas?

Jorquin

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2016, 02:24:33 AM »
I'm not the authority but common sense would suggest that people who try and apply "grey area" tactics risk getting punished, hard. As a general rule of thumb what a mortal will refer to as a "grey area" is usually them applying weird logic to justify cheating.

Everyone that plays Arctic at this point should be old enough to evaluate their options in a mature manner. Consider the rules, understand the possible consequences for breaking those rules, weigh up risk then make your own decision about what you should (or shouldn't) do.

Just make sure if you do get busted breaking the rules to cuss out whoever caught you then blame Wild imms, its tradition.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:44:51 AM by Jorquin »

btown

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 06:33:21 AM »
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 06:48:11 AM by btown »

lurker

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2016, 08:15:05 AM »
It seems like a 3rd party could easily get a given clan banned or punished, whatever that means, by simply "helping" the side they don't like.

HOSSclan is fighting COREYclan. Both are taking the game super serious, so they run with a full size group. Combat occurs, and... whats this? RandommageX and RandommageY both poof into the fight, and assist COREYclan with killing HOSSclan.

Results?

COREYclan punished for bringing more than a group's worth to a fight, even if they had no control over RandommageX or RandomageY?

Alternatively, no punishment, encouraging usage of this tactic in the intentional sense, rather than as a form of griefing?

Neither one sounds good.

Most important question: Why is this rule needed? Was arctic broken for the last 20 years, and the players just didn't realize it?

Zozen

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2016, 08:40:21 AM »
Games evolve. Would going back to '95 make the game better? Hardly, it would be boring as hell with the current number of players. There is no more "random mage" or "3rd party ambushing" or even scavengers because no one will fight in major cities these days as the power curve on chars is too great (i.e. logging 5 more legends when it was 8v8...) Who is going to even be that 3rd party? Core? Myth? Outlaw? Any of the small 2-5 man clans (alt clans) out there? That would be funny but I don't see that happening. It's been a 2 sided major faction pvp game for the past half decade or more following this general guideline:

1) RISE ambush WILD
2) WILD don't fight for weeks
3) WILD decides to fight
4) WILD or RISE quit (delete)
5) Both major factions of the clans quit (by month 3ish)
6) 8 months go by
7) pwipe


My sense is that they are trying to encourage WILD to fight so that there are actually pvp battles on a more regular basis. 

btown

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2016, 09:03:18 AM »
What if you have 12 people online and some clan ambushes you guys and kills all 8 of your group. 

So now you form up the 8 that are naked.   The other 4 people in your clan i guess they better not leave the inn because that 8man can still kill a 4man but the 4man cannot help their own 8man

i mean this is laughable

lurker

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2016, 09:15:21 AM »
Who is going to even be that 3rd party?

Friends of HOSSclan, in my example, because they would know that by helping COREYclan they could get the whole enemy clan punished.

You put a rule in that can be abused so easily, people *will* abuse it.



1) RISE ambush WILD
2) WILD don't fight for weeks


Isn't it obvious why this happens? PvP was a lot more exciting 15 years ago or so, because after your group got ambushed you could still log on your trashy alts and try to get revenge. The trash character rules and draconian enforcement made it so that major clans only fight when they are well geared and confident of winning. It may well take weeks to get well geared after being fully wiped.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 09:25:07 AM by lurker »

Zozen

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2016, 09:30:29 AM »
Who are the people that are going to abuse it? The only clan that would is Rise. Lurker/btown-- are u core myth outlaw or rise? Or none of the above. If u aren't in those then u don't have 8+ to worry about. If u are in core myth or outlaw what clan is going to attack u? Wild won't unless u attack them. It's unlikely that rise will while wild is playing... So when is this rule going to be abused? If u are in rise and lose all 8 sets,  which I don't think rise would lose an 8v8, u probably should take a break. Even wild getting ckate ambushed by 12 only lost 3 sets.

lurker

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2016, 09:35:55 AM »
Who are the people that are going to abuse it? The only clan that would is Rise

Maybe you don't understand human nature. This has never been a rule before, so you can't use past behavior as an example.

Now that it is a rule, anyone and everyone could abuse it. Hell, it could be some random neutral that doesn't like COREYclan because of a joke one of the members shouted. In the last 20 years of arctic, that random neutral wouldn't have any recourse, but thanks to this rule simply be giving the appearance of helping a clan he can get them all "punished", whatever that means.

Eh, whatever. The only care I have in this discussion is that i'd like to see arctic around and played. I won't be directly hurt by this rule change, only indirectly when large clans start quitting because random individuals can abuse this rule to hurt them.

Zozen

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Re: PK Rules
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2016, 09:47:24 AM »
Isn't it obvious why this happens? PvP was a lot more exciting 15 years ago or so, because after your group got ambushed you could still log on your trashy alts and try to get revenge. The trash character rules and draconian enforcement made it so that major clans only fight when they are well geared and confident of winning. It may well take weeks to get well geared after being fully wiped.

I'm not sure it's that obvious. I think there are a lot of reasons for wild not pkilling. Aging population. Full time jobs and kids. Pvp had always been about game knowledge and time. Since game knowledge is pretty even it comes down to time. Only  1 or 2 wild can put in more than 2-4 hours that is not broken up with family obligations. I'm pretty sure there are 5-7 in rise that put in double that and can do it uninterrupted. I'm not sure trash chars would make a difference with that disparity.