Attitude towards healers

[eddiex]

Your reply to Zozen makes it obvious you're a moron who is completely out of touch with any real idea of what goes on in this game. It is insulting that you think no one currently playing a healer is talented or elite. People like you will never understand this game well enough to have an informed opinion on the current state of the game. I wouldn't even have bothered responding to this thread, but you have dragged it on and on with presumptions about who you feel is elite and is not playing a healer.

Let me put it simply. There currently are elite players playing stacked healers. That will never change. People who you mentioned playing elite were generally clan leaders. Do these people want to play the same class over and over, wipe after wipe? You're completely off base. Get a clue dude.

[reed23]

I wouldn't consider myself a great healer, but I have played a healer for about 10 consecutive wipes.  I enjoy healing because the second I log on we can zone, period.  Healers don't need much of a revamp in my opinion.  Their main role is to heal, and that's what they currently do.  Rapture, Animate, Holy Word (I'd like to see this stun the opposite 2 alignments to be more useful - i.e. evils stun neutral and goodie), sunray, are all interesting non-healing features.  Clans will go no-where fast without a good healer in their clan.  The problem is is that the majority of clans over the past 5 wipes have probably used a char-shared bot healer to get the job done so others could play the greed-mongered 10 dam double oblitting classes.

[Gnua]

Clans will go no-where fast without a good healer in their clan.

maybe that's what separates RISE from the other clans because the ones I've been in during the past 5 years seem to either be casual or the alt of a more dedicated player.

[Oligo]

Healers are supports and supports cant carry..

Usually yes, but there are exceptions. Lesath, Troggs, and Tinotaur carried on multiple occasions in more competitive eras when there weren't 8-man group caps.
Lesath played in an era with no group caps, and Tinotaur played in an era with 12-man group caps.

Lesath: http://normstorm.com/logs/neraka1.txt

Tinotaur was intimidating to face. I'll have to dig up some Tinotaur logs, I always thought he was the best battle cleric of Arctic history.

[Zozen]

You're talking about an era where clerics could legitimately tank whole groups and not really break a sweat (thus not needing a script really, Troggs and Tinotaur were pure script nobash healers, great for pk.) I think at one point he took 60 damage from 7 people melee, prism did 30, true he was globed but I challenge you to take a globed char and tank a random 7 man legend group and see how much damage you are receiving. As the playerbase has decreased the raw damage of characters has increased so that people could continue to do zones without taking hours on hours to do one area (unless you're talking about Blood Shoal, ty Sanjuro.) We didn't see the defense or hitpoints of characters increase proportionally. What we are now seeing this wipe is the backlash against that power. I think it was a pretty clear statement from "the powers that be" that they are going to start curbing individual player power in an attempt to go back towards a more reasonable pk environment. I find it funny that a lot of the more vocal players on the forums have this idea that the "good ol' days" was just a better environment to play in....I highly doubt with the playerbase size as it is people would really want to have the same power character as those days, with most of the tanks extremely hard and maybe massacre on a sitting char with a very few annihilating. Taking hours to complete the old zones let alone tackling some of the new content because your damage is weak. Characters these days are consistently oblitting or more and yet people whined about stat decreases. Whined about group size being too small then whine about clerics not being necessary.

[gulca]

No one likes driving a honda around a track after being in a ferrari. Especially when you have had fastest lap in under 2 min. Now lap times are in 8 minutes average.


Complains are just another form of feedback. Albeit something you love to ignore just cos.

Personally the stat change havent affect my limited play much. Maybe it is because i have always drove a honda

[Gnua]

You're talking about an era where clerics could legitimately tank whole groups and not really break a sweat... As the playerbase has decreased the raw damage of characters has increased so that people could continue to do zones without taking hours on hours to do one area (unless you're talking about Blood Shoal, ty Sanjuro.) We didn't see the defense or hitpoints of characters increase proportionally. What we are now seeing this wipe is the backlash against that power.... Whined about group size being too small then whine about clerics not being necessary.

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the power creep has made healers less important, but now that oh so unpopular the nerf bat is coming out (group sizes reduction, stat reduction, healing cloud reduction) the stacked healers may once again become important.

[Zozen]

Stacked healers have always been important. You have never been able to effectively finish end game content without massive heals. Just like you need stacked main and tanks. The power creep made it so stacked healers died fast in Pk vs the old days not that they were less effective in zoning or groups.

[Oligo]

I challenge you to take a globed char and tank a random 7 man legend group and see how much damage you are receiving.

Challenge accepted.

Yhonk, a rank 31 legend warrior tanked the brunt of a 10v9 fight in the modern era (06/13/2013) with nearly all legends on both sides. It's doable, but he had two prime time battle healers as is visible from the below POV.
Quite frankly, without the two healers, fight would've been over by round 5.

http://normstorm.com/logs/june16_2013_clean.txt

[Jorake]

A legend cleric with three solid animates is probably the most exciting thing to see in this game.  If you don't enjoy playing a healer once legendary then you aren't doing it right.  Nothing else in the game can sex-tuple-oblit AND heal the whole group.

Now, I will agree, playing a healer pre-legend sucks donkey butt...

Even that is boring. I've had 17heal clerics ive had 22heal clerics, i've had like.. 4 legend clerics. I hardly ever wanted to mess with animates. I did used to like gate. When Hezrou was a DK mob and marilith actually hit decently. I used gate all the time just because it was right there whenever i wanted. I hate taking time out to go grab some type of animate. or the perfect animate.

[Jorake]

What is even the point of this thread? People who are not "top healers", will never become "top healers" if they cannot practice. The only way to develop into a "top healer" is to solo heal the most difficult portions of the game successfully. Either that or write an elite script. Scripted healers are boring, as are fully scripted characters in general. There is no entertainment value to sitting there and watching your character heal like a champ day in and day out.

Are you trying to "psychologize" the reason they aren't played more? Bring attention to how much they need a revamp?

News flash: Clerics are still one of the most valuable classes in the game. Shamans were developed as an alternate healing class. This allows for greater group diversity, which IMO has been more pronounced because of the necessity to optimize classes in 8 man groups.  This top flight healer conversation is absurd and I'm sure quite insulting to many talented healers who aren't fully automated.  Why don't you break down a list of all the A B C and D group healers to enlighten us all of your insight...

LMAO. I'd consider myself one of those top healers who has never used a script.
I think you're being a bit harsh on richard though. Maybe say sorry? Instead of bashing a guy who is nice to everyone who plays this game.

[Jorake]

All I know is I've had legend druids and shamans. I'm not sure what the changes were to healing but I could solo heal pretty much all fights. And actually. Could of probably done cyan with just a healer and shaman last wipe.

Legend clerics are still fun though. Rapture is crazy, specially if you have legend barb with you. amel is also super sweet. I've always liked mist. Sunray is still fun.

GIVE CLERICS BACK REGEN AND DITCH THE SHAMANS!

[Valenore]

I challenge you to take a globed char and tank a random 7 man legend group and see how much damage you are receiving.

Challenge accepted.

Yhonk, a rank 31 legend warrior tanked the brunt of a 10v9 fight in the modern era (06/13/2013) with nearly all legends on both sides. It's doable, but he had two prime time battle healers as is visible from the below POV.
Quite frankly, without the two healers, fight would've been over by round 5.

http://normstorm.com/logs/june16_2013_clean.txt

I am sure you are saying a little of this in jest but just to point out:

1. Your "prime time battle healers" is are basically bot healers (guessing other one is also).  It appears there probably was an actual person looking at the screen because there were a few extra "group"s  and a mem thrown in, but all healing was automatic. 

2.  The other group did not target the healer and as soon as the healer got targetted (granted did get a well timed spec) Yhonk and then the healer ripped. 

3. As important as the healer is the druid's clouds that were neutralizing all the area damage freeing up the heal bot to take care of healing yhonk who was the only one consistently at fair or lower.  Take away the clouds and the heal script (or even a human healer which would not perform as well) would be spread to thin and the group would have RIPed in half the time.

[Zozen]

I challenge you to take a globed char and tank a random 7 man legend group and see how much damage you are receiving.

Challenge accepted.

Yhonk, a rank 31 legend warrior tanked the brunt of a 10v9 fight in the modern era (06/13/2013) with nearly all legends on both sides. It's doable, but he had two prime time battle healers as is visible from the below POV.
Quite frankly, without the two healers, fight would've been over by round 5.

http://normstorm.com/logs/june16_2013_clean.txt

So then it's not do able. over 350 dam in a round? Compare that to lesath damage?

[Gnua]

All I know is I've had legend druids and shamans. I'm not sure what the changes were to healing but I could solo heal pretty much all fights. And actually. Could of probably done cyan with just a healer and shaman last wipe.

Legend clerics are still fun though. Rapture is crazy, specially if you have legend barb with you. amel is also super sweet. I've always liked mist. Sunray is still fun.

GIVE CLERICS BACK REGEN AND DITCH THE SHAMANS!

Maybe brandon's plan to get me to roll a healer is to convince the imms to get rid of all shamans.