Group limit change

[Gnua]

Do you know how average damage is calculated? I don't want to reveal too much game info, but if you think a basket hilted longsword is a 12+ avg damage prime, you need a lesson in math. 12+ is, at a minimum a 4d4+3 weapon, or a 3d6+1.

nitpick: 4d4 +2 averages to 12 dam.  12+ usually means 12 or more.  3d6 + 1 averages to 11.5

your overall point is valid though. there was a time that 12 or more average damage weapons were used by somewhat serious players and they got their damage from the items. though even now i dont think u find blessed elven longswords at the vendor.

[lurker]

Thanks for catching the error.  And keep in mind I am talking relative terms. A 4d4 +2 +2 might have been a good weapon, while a 4d4 +2 -2 would get thrown on the vendor. But generally, if a 1-handed prime weapon had 12 or better average damage, and positive hitroll bonus, that was pretty damn good and you would never see it on a vendor - with a few rare exceptions like loot from a random pkilling being dumped.

[Ezio]

Eli Manning is not an elite quarterback.

I have no leg to stand on as I didn't play then. I am just saying if +hit roll, 12 dam weapons, and auto flies were elite I would be surprised.

That's not a brag, that's an average player. If you can load it in a level 3 zone, I would not consider it to be an elite item.

[Zozen]

The +hitroll/enchanted set/venom dagger main warrior was great!

[oom]

Eli Manning is not an elite quarterback.

I have no leg to stand on as I didn't play then. I am just saying if +hit roll, 12 dam weapons, and auto flies were elite I would be surprised.

That's not a brag, that's an average player. If you can load it in a level 3 zone, I would not consider it to be an elite item.

I remember vividly being pkilled for a 3d5 2dr 1hr prime, another time for green swordsman gloves, and another for an int/wis necklace.

If I remember correctly there was once a limit of 200 players online at a time and I used to wait at my computer for a spot to open. There were much fewer zones, and equipment, for the most part, wasn't as strong in general as it is now. Combine that with the fact that there were 5 times more players online at any given time.. yeah a 3d6 2/2 prime was considered to be pretty awesome. A +dam item on an unclanned character was usually pk'd for within a few days. Red Chasuble or whatever from thorb was considered to be a very good item. Now you couldn't give it away. Same with HELD autofly items. Those things were always maxed.

Arctic changed a lot before you started playing.

[Jorake]

My first pk was walking someone into the tarsis sewers DT because he had my 3d6 2 2 sturdy twohanded sword from the hired mercenary N of bali. I was i think... 12-13 years old. 

The highest I got that wipe was lvl 19 on a barbarian. And i never went any further than around tarsis and to the hired mercenary based on dirs that some guy named jarlaxle gave me.

Fun times.

[Chisul]

I think that was me...

[Ericj]

I have been testing out this group limit change and wanted to give it some time before jumping to any rash decisions.  After a month now, we have a good evaluation period.  The thought behind group size I understand, try to make game harder and avoid chance of bots for any filler spots.  The issue is that its not exactly what is happening.

I've led a fair amount in this game and still lead groups this wipe.  I find with 8 limit group I am having to really pick and choose the folks we need in groups since things are harder, along with half the group has crap natural stats :)  The folks who get left out typically are mages and people who just are not as skilled in the game or maybe not legend.  I try to include sub 30's/non-legends but when push comes to shove, you take legends for harder zones.  The theory of 2ndary groups rarely works out.  I would love to take along more people who just want to zone and don't know much, but group limit change has made that difficult.  More people we can bring along and zone, the longer people have fun.  I also enjoyed filling spots with neutrals who are not in my clan, give them a chance to zone/rank, but that is also something that has not been able to happen.

There is no way to satisfy or fix every problem.  We can have group limits of 12 again and some bots will fill spots, we can have group limits of 6 and bots will fill spots there too.  At this time though, the ripple effect of this group limit change is real players are being left out.  The game is great and fun, we need to try to get as many active players engaged and keep them engaged.  The news about some nerfs coming, which I may not be thrilled with, could be a great time to change group limit back to 10 for a little give & take in this adjustment process.

[Jorake]

I halfway agree with Eric here. He is one of the more neutral friendly bigzone leaders.

Apoc isnt big enough to have to pick and choose like that I guess. We only have like 9 players total and 2 of them already quit it seems. I guess, I just don't understand every ones panic on this. How many awesome leaders does CORE have? I've seen enough of you on to have 2 groups going. I know Ilya/Eric lead almost all the same stuff. So why not branch out and get a diff group going? Then no one is left out.

I get wanting to group with your pals, I am fortunate enough that my clan is smaller and we don't have to pick and choose. Like I said before. This argument has been made each and every time the group limits have changed. There is always going to be someone left out. There is always going to be someone who gets kicked for someone else. I doubt anyone brings a mage to kraken or blazewight to begin with.

I would love to see some more clans pop up!

[Zozen]

I doubt anyone brings a mage to kraken or blazewight to begin with.

But end-game mages sure as shit are in pvp groups..

[Oligo]

If I had collected feedback since the beginning, I think I'd have a few pages worth of similar quotes as below.

http://normstorm.com/arctic/arctic_feedback.png

[Nary]

The reason you don't have 2 groups alot is because the leaders aka high level ranked chars are needed I  the main group so rarely any leader for 2nd group.  Think about it if you had 4 leaders in a clan they are all on at the same time you will want a big main group for harder zones.

[Gnua]

The reason you don't have 2 groups alot is because the leaders aka high level ranked chars are needed I  the main group so rarely any leader for 2nd group.  Think about it if you had 4 leaders in a clan they are all on at the same time you will want a big main group for harder zones.

Another issue with the second group is that when a couple people rent out of the main group, then the second group collapses because the main group takes key players out of the second group.  I dont mind being left out if one person in the main group is willing to leave and do 2man stuff with me. Stealing one out of a ten person group is a little less detrimental to the main group than taking one of eight though.

[breiner]

Group limit increased to 10.
A change appreciated by our little merry band of people.

[Gnua]

Group limit increased to 10.
A change appreciated by our little merry band of people.

would it make sense for legends to take up two group spots?